9 comments

  • dehrmann 20 minutes ago
    Matt Levine's take was essentially that if you're in the index fund game, you want the market. You don't pick and choose what parts of the market you want--that's active management. SPCX mostly isn't an issue because most indices include the float in the weight, so it isn't really even a $1T company.
    • sethops1 13 minutes ago
      Okay then why is SPCX going to be weighted 3x its actual float in the Nasdaq? A rule made just for SPCX.
    • skizm 14 minutes ago
      To the same point I also don't want the index itself picking and choosing which companies to apply which rules to.
      • Zigurd 5 minutes ago
        Except they did pick and choose SPCX and did special favors by giving you a multiplier on the float and an exceedingly short interval before including it in indices.
    • akkartik 8 minutes ago
      TIL about float for stock, thanks.
    • wetpaws 16 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • ggm 57 minutes ago
    An interesting variant of "privatise the profits, socialise the losses" played wholly in the private sector capital investment space. "When you're rich they let you" is big in this because a functional board of a company about to be vested with a massive debt overhang from a serial offender (X and xAI) would surely have said "could we NOT" about this and the whole model including A and B class voting shares suggests this is a control issue: given proper control models none of this could happen.
  • mattmaroon 1 hour ago
    Everybody is upset about the rule change, but to be honest, they would’ve just ended up in the same position a few months later. Elon has kept Tesla’s market cap at 5-10x what any reasonable investor would think it should be for the better part of a decade. It’s not like SpaceX is going to tank in the next 3 months and they’ll be left holding the bag. It’s not like it wasn’t going to end up in every index in a year.

    And to be clear, I’m not saying it’s a good thing. I just don’t think it matters so much.

    • ribosometronome 1 hour ago
      Moving to have 401ks investing in it when 5% of the stock is publicly available versus 30-40%+ that would have been available on the previous timelines seems like it could have pretty dramatic effects on its price.
      • loeg 52 minutes ago
        The relevant indices (S&P500, Vanguard) buy in proportion to available float -- i.e., its market cap is weighted by 5%. Only Nasdaq 100 ignores float, stupidly, but almost no money, especially 401(k) money, is in that.
        • nrmitchi 18 minutes ago
          This may be true (I'm sure it is, but I haven't verified) but the large majority of people do not know this, which is why hearing "my retirement account is going to be forced to by a bunch of spacex at a $2.5T valuation" makes them.... uneasy.
        • mschuster91 16 minutes ago
          Oh there are ETFs that track Nasdaq 100.
        • keernan 11 minutes ago
          Musk tried mightily to get S&P to change their 12 month rule to 15 days but they refused. Nasdaq, however, caved to Musk and agreed to change the rules of its Index - from a 12 months wait to 15 days - in exchange for Musk agreeing to list SpaceX on Nasdaq's exchange.

          There are ETFs that were issued tied to the Nasdaq 100 which are therefore legally bound to buy SpaceX. But the biggest immorality is the SEC allowing Musk's attempt to manipulate the market by: 1. Setting an IPO price for SpaceX (which absorbed xAi and its money guzzling losses) at unsustainable, incredibly inflated prices; and then 2. Putting incredible pressure on SP500 and other index makers to change their rules to force the purchase of SpaceX at those sky high prices (in an IPO, company gets to set the IPO price).

          It's legal. At least in the eyes of the SEC which, of course, is an institution that is controlled by the wealthiest who control the markets, so of course it's legal.

          But it is outrageous market manipulation that is fraudulent in its intent to enrich the wealthiest man on earth at the expense of ever wage earner putting her money into Index Funds.

          Thank goodness the S&P and CRSP refused to change their rules. Otherwise the shifting of risk from Musk onto the shoulders of every working American would have been complete.

    • Retric 1 hour ago
      Without rapid purchasing by indexes SpaceX’s stock would likely to tank as ever more people would be able to sell over the first year.

      It’s a 24 year old company with a current high flying stock price based on very questionable numbers.

      • pclmulqdq 51 minutes ago
        We all said that about Tesla for years, and a lot of people got burned on the trade. This time may be different, but it also may not be.
        • Retric 41 minutes ago
          Tesla’s numbers looked vastly more reasonable.

          “In 2025, SpaceX generated $18.7 billion in revenue, with its Starlink satellite internet service accounting for $11.39 billion, or 61% of total sales.”

          Tesla had higher revenue number in at the start of 2019, when it had a market cap of ~0.06 trillion. Further Tesla was highly volatile in 2021 despite huge earnings growth with some people bank when it fell from 1.2T to 0.34T before recovering.

      • nullstyle 44 minutes ago
        With several large bets on the table with starship that have yet to play out.

        Remember mars by 2024? I think that was around the time they started accepting deposits on tesla semi.

        • saturn8601 26 minutes ago
          They shipped the Semi though. Yes the situation is bad but its not vaporware. Musk had to scam the markets to survive in late 2017/2018
    • wolvoleo 11 minutes ago
      Bubbles always blow. Maybe not in 3 months but eventually someone will figure that those trillions can't possibly be made back ever again.

      And then the fall down is hard.

    • Panzer04 1 hour ago
      Depends, they've gone to pains to ensure the indexes will buy as share lockups end. It's dodgy no matter how you look at.

      The one saving grace is s&p isnt changing anything, and they were by far the biggest index.

    • HWR_14 43 minutes ago
      They probably won't be on the S&P for years, because of profitability requirements.
      • redox99 29 minutes ago
        If they can keep google and anthropic deals, they're already profitable.
    • asveikau 40 minutes ago
      I got a good investment vehicle for you. How would you like to purchase shares in the Brooklyn bridge? You could see returns in the form of tolls.
    • mschuster91 17 minutes ago
      > It’s not like SpaceX is going to tank in the next 3 months and they’ll be left holding the bag.

      A stock's value can disappear in a matter of days to a degree it leads to a complete collapse. It has happened before, see Enron or Wirecard.

      > It’s not like it wasn’t going to end up in every index in a year.

      Sure, but it's still not wise to let unripe stocks into most American and RoW retirement funds. There's a reason why many complex software projects keep some sort of "staging" tree, and the stock markets should do so as well.

    • downrightmike 1 hour ago
  • 4fterd4rk 56 minutes ago
    SpaceX has not been added to the S&P 500. They asked for the rules to be waived. S&P said no. I don't understand this article.
    • Retric 54 minutes ago
      S&P 500 didn’t change their rules but other indexes have.

      https://indexes.nasdaqomx.com/docs/2026_May_NDX_Changes_FAQ....

      Q: What is the purpose of modifying the liquidity and seasoning requirements? Could this change result in the inclusion of illiquid securities in the index?

      A: Most indexes require a liquidity threshold for new constituents, often as a minimum share count or average daily trading value. For the Nasdaq-100®, securities must have a three-month average daily traded value of at least $5 million. Since only very large companies – typically with full market capitalizations over $100 billion as of March 2026 – would have qualified for fast entry, they are expected to easily and quickly meet this requirement. However, an average daily traded value of at least $5 million from the time of listing will still be required for fast entry candidates. Many indexes have included seasoning requirements to ensure that traditional IPOs undergo price discovery and stabilization before being included. These requirements were originally intended to prevent small or little-known companies from entering too soon. However, there is now a trend toward IPOs being larger and more mature than in the past. Companies expected to meet the fast entry threshold are likely to be among the world’s most significant and well-known firms. High investor interest and trading volumes should accelerate price discovery, further supporting a shorter seasoning period. Note that the seasoning period for companies outside of the Top 40 remains at three months.

      Several indexes have changed not just Nasdaq, but it’s one more people have heard about.

      • loeg 51 minutes ago
        Nasdaq isn't super relevant.
        • Retric 44 minutes ago
          Sure but it’s not the only one. Add in SPY, QQQ, and IWM Force Index Funds and the percentage of Americans buying SpaceX early due to rule changes looks bad.

          Edit: Ops SPY didn’t change their rules.

          • infecto 36 minutes ago
            SPYis sp500 is it not? Why would they include it?

            For others like qqq it has no bearing to be frank. It follows the nasdaq 100. Maybe an argument that the extra few months would have allowed more price discovery but I am not so sure.

        • ojbyrne 32 minutes ago
          Also CRSP, which is the index used by US Total Market funds and many Target Date funds.
          • richwater 1 minute ago
            float adjustment results in any CRSP tracking fund/etf having a $10,000 investment being approximately $17 worth of SpaceX. This isn't a real problem the media is trying to push it as.
    • reactordev 54 minutes ago
      Firms or funds, don’t care, want to put money in anyway…
  • anotherhue 1 hour ago
    What exactly can an individual do? For many their accounts have limited fund choices and if you don't want to pay high ER for fund manager's pedicures then you end up on an index, which (S&P500 excluded) have now bent the knee. Mine are on russel indexes so I have no choice.

    Short spacex is the only answer I've heard but I'm wise enough to know I don't have the mentality for derivatives.

    • whiplash451 20 minutes ago
      You can buy the companies making up the index instead of the index itself.

      It was proven to be a good strategy on the SP500 [1, 2]

      With 500 companies, it's work. But you can probably approximate it with a top 100.

      [1] https://rodneywhitecenter.wharton.upenn.edu/wp-content/uploa...

      [2] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0015198X.2023.2...

    • _--__--__ 1 hour ago
      The vast majority of American employees are not maxing out every tax advantaged retirement account instrument, and putting everything in a 401(k) past the employer match level is not advisable exactly because of the limited investment choices.
      • bdangubic 1 hour ago
        except if you self-employed. I have maxed the shit out of my 401k (i401k, self-managed) and after 3 decade career have more saved than I can spend in 8 lifetimes
    • HWR_14 34 minutes ago
      Shorting SpaceX when you own the same amount of SpaceX in an ETF doesn't require any derivatives and is a fairly safe play. The amount of interest you have to pay will vary a little bit, but it should cost a very small amount net.

      The biggest issues are the effort and tax implications of balancing the SpaceX short.

  • eagerpace 1 hour ago
    The recent AI craze is really just LLMs. I feel like finance was likely already the most AI-adopted industry without LLMs and their impact the last few years may have taken them from “80 to 100” where most industries are going “10 to 50.” Go back to 2022 for a moment and I think this article is identical.
  • glimshe 1 hour ago
    This isn't investment advice etc etc but there are many options that can capture large sections of the stock market without being exposed to the tech bubble (assuming there is one).

    Many people say you should stay invested in the SP500 anyway and I won't argue against that. But funds like VTV, DGRO, VIG, SCHD etc don't have the same level of exposure to tech, as well as international funds like VEA. Many 401ks allow you to invest in them through brokerage "link" options. Of course, do your research or talk to a pro before considering these.

  • adam_arthur 53 minutes ago
    Half of the companies in the S&P 500 are trading at over 10x sales.

    SpaceX is just another one on top of the pile, whenever it gets included.

    Valuation multiples always mean revert on a long enough timeline... you can position for it today if you care to.

    https://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-price-to-sales

  • fortran77 1 hour ago
    You can opt to put some or all of your 401K into a "Value fund"

    VVIAX (Vanguard) or FLCOX (Fidelity)

    to reduce your exposure to the highest of high-flying stocks.

    Of course, many small company 401Ks limit your investment options to a small family of high expense ratio funds...

    • sfblah 39 minutes ago
      Unfortunately most people won't do that, either from ignorance or fear of missing out. Sometime in the next few years the chickens are going to come home to roost on the infinibubble, and I'm not really sure if the US financial system will weather it.