I love the idea of hydro/aquaponics and built a system as a student more than a decade ago. It’s a fun project.
But as a form of agriculture it’s a spectacularly bad idea at home.
This setup is about 1 square meter of NYC space, that’s about $18k. Meanwhile agricultural land goes for about $2/m2, or 9000x less. Then you spend $700 in parts to set up the 1 square meter, even if you put the system on cheap rural Kentucky land. Then you pay $170 a year to power the system for again, 1 square meter.
Meanwhile the 1 square meter produces like less than $100 in annual produce.
Green house farms like in the Netherlands have perfected this growing method and it’s quite effective. Home food production is a joke by comparison just like home anything production of a commodity product.
So fun DIY projects but as a serious way to grow food it’s terrible, not economical or sustainable. I tore down my project the same year I built it, taught me a lot but made no sense to continue.
Yep. I initially looked into it as a potential avenue for sustainably producing some of my own food, but the math absolutely did not make sense.
Growing a bunch of potatoes in a barrel would be a lot more bang for your buck with that goal in mind. To really optimize costs and labor, though, as you say, you need a greenhouse and/or a big old field, just like always. There are no small-scale shortcuts. Not yet, anyway.
It makes me a bit sad that even with modern tech we haven't really made it much easier for people to produce their own food. But it's a reminder that our food production requires large scale collaboration and cooperation. Maybe that's a good thing.
There are a lot of cool growing technologies but it’s really hard to beat the sun and rain and soil on cost. Once you go inside you have to provide the medium, the energy via lamps, watering system and all the micro and macro nutrients. Gets more expensive naturally
So... This is more comparable to a guppy tank than a farm.
Generally, yes you are right. Home farming (eg vegetable gardening) generally isn't economical. That doesn't mean it's not valuable. Besides being fun... I do think home gardening some resilience to the food system.
Aquaponics is, in general, not really a viable commercial method. Or rather, the plants are just a filter for the pinds...not a true secondary product.
By this logic, doing anything yourself is inefficient and a waste of time.
However, I think that by reducing it purely to a monetary number, you are not measuring things correctly. Part of the output of doing DIY things is the knowledge, experience, and fun that comes from doing it. If you insist on putting a dollar sign on that, I’m sure it ends up being much more equal.
I can still remember ads for the "Biotron" flourescent grow system in various magazines back in the '70s --- the ad featured roses, but of course the actual usage was typically for growing marijuana. (Later that name was co-opted by the Micronauts toy line/comic books for a character).
The O Garden seemed an interesting modern spin (couldn't resist the pun):
(but I think they went under? The footprint was kind of extravagant)
I still think someone needs to work up a unit designed to fit next to a refrigerator --- bonus points for circulating filtered air so that the heat from the fridge is harvested for the plants.
The other option I've been curious about is a window unit mounted like an in-window air conditioner (maybe you could combine the two? harvest the condensate and heat for the benefit of the plants?)
My favorite part of Gibson’s Count Zero was always the hydroponic gardens covering an entire floor of a New Jersey housing complex. Probably not as realistic as the setup in the link, but both are still very cool ideas.
It's just not very interesting as a whole. A quant and his programmer gf living in ny stack 3 fishtanks in a rack. It's questionable why it's even on here at all.
HU 42: TOR switch. 41-40: management server (2U). 39: git server for `fish` (1U). 38: build server for `fish` (1U). 37-28: fish (10U). 27-24: plan9s. 23-14: plants. 13-5: plumbing. 4-1: UPS.
Don't put your UPS under a fishtank, folks. It becomes an IPS when it gets wet.
Disagree - engineers documenting fun and quirky DIY projects is very much in the hacker spirit. Before reading this I didn't even know aquaponics was a thing, much less a thing with a "thriving online community".
...also, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but why not "a programmer and her quant bf"? She's the one who wrote the article on her own blog, and this is primarily a community of programmers.
A few years ago, I read in a book that it is feasible and safe to manufacture colloidal silver at home using electrolysis. I was intrigued, because my father had conducted many similar projects with success, in the kitchen, in the garage, and in the backyard, as he worked for EH&S. The Dunning-Kruger swelled within me.
I reviewed photographs of the home lab setups, and I evaluated ingredient/supply/equipment lists. I even inquired at my credit union's branch whether they could sell me silver bullion, which was hysterical in retrospect.
Then, as I slept on it a few nights, I had nightmares of this electrolysis lab just getting out of hand, taking over my bathroom (where there is actually no space for anything else) and just ruining my dull, ordinary life. I don't even have any roommates or family living with me here.
So of course I decided not even to try this. This NYC apartment seems similarly constrained. If I were their landlord, I would dread finding someone running this kind of crap. Insurance and liability are the biggest problems here. They should go purchase a home if they want to play around.
> in our one-bedroom NYC apartment ... Bigger tank = better
If tank fails, you are liable for water damages and home insurance DOES NOT cover that. We were flodded by neighbours, the damage was $20.000 in cheap east europe commie block.
Plus bigger tanks need structural support in floor (steel beams).
Having a fish tank for fish is a normal enough thing and carries similar risks of water damage, doesn't it? Does this strike you as significantly higher-risk, less insurable, or more irresponsible than that?
As someone who has over 800 gallons in aquariums between three tanks in his house, I'll say structural support is not as important as people make it out to be (ask an actual structural enginer). Anything up to 120 or so is just fine hanging out on a floor without extra support.
Also steel is completely unnecessary unless you're doing something wild like that guy in NYC with a 17,000 gallon home aquarium. If you're just throwing a 200 gallon or so on a second floor, an enginer might not care at all if its across the joists or has a wall below it, but even if its completely open below, the "support" might just be a joist of a different design, or an inch thicker or one extra joist. Steel is really not nessecary
But big tanks do need extra support. This is a relevant thing to post in case someone is thinking about scaling it up.
The Pfizer building in NYC almost collapsed after they tried to build a swimming pool on the roof. This happens semi-regularly when building owners ignore, or don't consult, engineers about rooftop swimming pools. Every owner wants one and doesn't want to be told no.
> If tank fails, you are liable for water damages and home insurance DOES NOT cover that.
Whether an aquarium is covered by home/renters insurance is specific to the policy and aquarium size, not consistent enough to make statements like this. This aquaponics system is essentially a planter on top of a low stock aquarium.
I will say that the shelf supporting the aquarium seems inadequate to the job, increasing the risk.
> With similar concerns in mind, we also decided to limit the tank size to 20 gallons, as the grow-bed above also contains an additional ~10 gallons of water. Since a gallon of fresh water weighs roughly 8.34lbs, we estimate this puts the entire weight of the system’s water somewhere between 170 and 250lbs. Considering the weight threshold of the industrial shelving, and given that we live on a high floor in our building, we decided to constrain the system to this size to minimize the flooding risk.
And people are wondering why being landlords is often such a bad investment.
Imagine the lawsuit if you rent out an apartment that you own, and your „very intelligent“ tenant produces water leak damages, in a nyc high rise with potentially ALL owners underneath you affected.
I think landlords are not liable in this case. It is like if tennant sets building on fire. It just violates all sorts of codes.
For landlords worst are dogs. With wooden floors soaked with acidic urine, all surfaces scratched and chowed. Thanks to ESA bs, you can not even charge extra security deposit or extra rent! And normal tenants avoid your building, nobody wants to live in laud smelly zoo!
But as a form of agriculture it’s a spectacularly bad idea at home.
This setup is about 1 square meter of NYC space, that’s about $18k. Meanwhile agricultural land goes for about $2/m2, or 9000x less. Then you spend $700 in parts to set up the 1 square meter, even if you put the system on cheap rural Kentucky land. Then you pay $170 a year to power the system for again, 1 square meter.
Meanwhile the 1 square meter produces like less than $100 in annual produce.
Green house farms like in the Netherlands have perfected this growing method and it’s quite effective. Home food production is a joke by comparison just like home anything production of a commodity product.
So fun DIY projects but as a serious way to grow food it’s terrible, not economical or sustainable. I tore down my project the same year I built it, taught me a lot but made no sense to continue.
Growing a bunch of potatoes in a barrel would be a lot more bang for your buck with that goal in mind. To really optimize costs and labor, though, as you say, you need a greenhouse and/or a big old field, just like always. There are no small-scale shortcuts. Not yet, anyway.
It makes me a bit sad that even with modern tech we haven't really made it much easier for people to produce their own food. But it's a reminder that our food production requires large scale collaboration and cooperation. Maybe that's a good thing.
Generally, yes you are right. Home farming (eg vegetable gardening) generally isn't economical. That doesn't mean it's not valuable. Besides being fun... I do think home gardening some resilience to the food system.
Aquaponics is, in general, not really a viable commercial method. Or rather, the plants are just a filter for the pinds...not a true secondary product.
Still... aquaponics is fun.
However, I think that by reducing it purely to a monetary number, you are not measuring things correctly. Part of the output of doing DIY things is the knowledge, experience, and fun that comes from doing it. If you insist on putting a dollar sign on that, I’m sure it ends up being much more equal.
One one hand it's a fun DIY project for some people.
On the other hand, every other year somone rediscover vertical farming that makes no sense except for very niche products.
So probably 1% of the users who are clicking directly to the comments and upvoting the inane GP comment to the top
The O Garden seemed an interesting modern spin (couldn't resist the pun):
https://www.coolthings.com/ogarden-rotating-indoor-planter-w...
(but I think they went under? The footprint was kind of extravagant)
I still think someone needs to work up a unit designed to fit next to a refrigerator --- bonus points for circulating filtered air so that the heat from the fridge is harvested for the plants.
The other option I've been curious about is a window unit mounted like an in-window air conditioner (maybe you could combine the two? harvest the condensate and heat for the benefit of the plants?)
HU 42: TOR switch. 41-40: management server (2U). 39: git server for `fish` (1U). 38: build server for `fish` (1U). 37-28: fish (10U). 27-24: plan9s. 23-14: plants. 13-5: plumbing. 4-1: UPS.
Don't put your UPS under a fishtank, folks. It becomes an IPS when it gets wet.
...also, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but why not "a programmer and her quant bf"? She's the one who wrote the article on her own blog, and this is primarily a community of programmers.
I reviewed photographs of the home lab setups, and I evaluated ingredient/supply/equipment lists. I even inquired at my credit union's branch whether they could sell me silver bullion, which was hysterical in retrospect.
Then, as I slept on it a few nights, I had nightmares of this electrolysis lab just getting out of hand, taking over my bathroom (where there is actually no space for anything else) and just ruining my dull, ordinary life. I don't even have any roommates or family living with me here.
So of course I decided not even to try this. This NYC apartment seems similarly constrained. If I were their landlord, I would dread finding someone running this kind of crap. Insurance and liability are the biggest problems here. They should go purchase a home if they want to play around.
If tank fails, you are liable for water damages and home insurance DOES NOT cover that. We were flodded by neighbours, the damage was $20.000 in cheap east europe commie block.
Plus bigger tanks need structural support in floor (steel beams).
Also steel is completely unnecessary unless you're doing something wild like that guy in NYC with a 17,000 gallon home aquarium. If you're just throwing a 200 gallon or so on a second floor, an enginer might not care at all if its across the joists or has a wall below it, but even if its completely open below, the "support" might just be a joist of a different design, or an inch thicker or one extra joist. Steel is really not nessecary
The Pfizer building in NYC almost collapsed after they tried to build a swimming pool on the roof. This happens semi-regularly when building owners ignore, or don't consult, engineers about rooftop swimming pools. Every owner wants one and doesn't want to be told no.
Whether an aquarium is covered by home/renters insurance is specific to the policy and aquarium size, not consistent enough to make statements like this. This aquaponics system is essentially a planter on top of a low stock aquarium.
I will say that the shelf supporting the aquarium seems inadequate to the job, increasing the risk.
> With similar concerns in mind, we also decided to limit the tank size to 20 gallons, as the grow-bed above also contains an additional ~10 gallons of water. Since a gallon of fresh water weighs roughly 8.34lbs, we estimate this puts the entire weight of the system’s water somewhere between 170 and 250lbs. Considering the weight threshold of the industrial shelving, and given that we live on a high floor in our building, we decided to constrain the system to this size to minimize the flooding risk.
Citation needed. Very bold sweeping claim
Imagine the lawsuit if you rent out an apartment that you own, and your „very intelligent“ tenant produces water leak damages, in a nyc high rise with potentially ALL owners underneath you affected.
For landlords worst are dogs. With wooden floors soaked with acidic urine, all surfaces scratched and chowed. Thanks to ESA bs, you can not even charge extra security deposit or extra rent! And normal tenants avoid your building, nobody wants to live in laud smelly zoo!