Python string literals are kinda funny

(sebsite.pw)

45 points | by jandeboevrie 2 days ago

10 comments

  • PyWoody 1 hour ago
    Whenever I read people's takes about Python on HN, I always feel like I'm using an entirely different language.
  • dwdz 2 hours ago
    I'm not a fan of f-strings.

    I feel like 90% of new Python features in the last 10 years just increased language complexity without any benefit.

    • ForceBru 1 hour ago
      I'm a HUGE fan of f-strings and I think they should be added to more or less every language in existence. (This is just to show how much I like f-strings, not to be taken literally) `printf`-style format strings seem outdated: why use format strings when I can put my variables IN THE STRING? I want the result of `x+y` to be put {HERE} in this string. Well, just write `"This is here: {x+y} blah"` — it makes perfect sense and immediately lets me see what the resulting strings generally look like.

      Basic usage is a no-brainer: write your string, put variables or short expressions in curly braces, add `printf`-style format specifiers after the colon. This is also great because it's a natural extension of `printf`-style format strings.

      Of course you can write complicated and confusing f-strings. But then you can write complicated and confusing... anything, really. Many programming languages have extremely weird quirks and cases where basic syntax can be transformed into an unreadable monstrosity, like C syntax for pointers to functions and arrays.

      Sure, this increases the language's complexity, but you don't have to use all of it to reap the benefits.

      • Izkata 18 minutes ago
        Those aren't the only two options. Like GP I don't like f-strings, but there was something introduced before that: the format function.

          "The thing is {foo}, and also {foo} again".format(foo=x+y)
        
        It also supports positional with empty {}. And like f-strings, you can put formatting information after a colon.

        %-based printf-style did also have named variables like this but it seemed less known.

    • vova_hn2 3 minutes ago
      I like f-strings but I don't like that there are at least five ways to format stings.

      1. %-formatting [1]

      2. str.format [2]

      3. string.Template [3]

      4. f-string [4]

      5. t-string [5]

      What happened to "one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it"? [6]

      Also, the way string formatting interacts with logging is a total mess. People just pass f-strings to logging, which seems to be an intuitive way to do it. Except it limits your options if you want to collect structured logs and it doesn't allow you to use late evaluation based on log level.

      [1] https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#format-example...

      [2] https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#str.format

      [3] https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#string.Templat...

      [4] https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#f-...

      [5] https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#t-...

      [6] https://peps.python.org/pep-0020/

    • ajrouvoet 1 hour ago
      It is baffling to me that Python seems to insist on reinventing language features and coming up with the most incomprehensible of designs. The whole dataclass and serialisation ecosystem comes to mind, as well as the evolution of typing.

      The language exposes so much of its internals that even if the design were consistent, the ecosystem of (buggy) libs and tools makes it inconsistent.

      • LPisGood 1 hour ago
        PKL files and the entire multiprocessing paradigm is one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had with a programming language feature. Surely there has to be a better way.
    • analog31 1 hour ago
      Indeed, and I get that one can ignore those features (I do), but finding them in existing code or having the AI coding agent use them diminishes the "easy for beginners" aspect.
      • ForceBru 4 minutes ago
        How is, say, `age = 5; print(f"Age: {age} years old")` not easy for beginners? IMO it's as easy as it gets: you want the value of `age` printed {HERE}, so you just put it where you want it, surrounded by curly brackets.
      • orf 1 hour ago
        Are f-strings not easy for beginners? What would you prefer instead?
  • vova_hn2 24 minutes ago
    I think this is pretty intuitive (I was able to answer the question correctly before opening the spoiler), but I really like raw string designs in Rust and C++11 that allow you to stop worrying about escaping completely.
  • phyzome 1 hour ago
    Goofy edge cases aside, I think f-strings are great.
  • ethin 33 minutes ago
    Not really about the content of the blog post but am I the only one bothered by the complete lack of capitalization? Granted it may be because of my screen reader but my TTS engine of choice doesn't pause on un-capitalized words/sentences/phrases/etc. which follow a full stop, so this post unless I read it line by line (minus the code) just blends into complete noise.
  • xg15 2 days ago
    here's a valid f-string:

    >>> f'{'}'}' '}'

    Huh? I remember learning the rule that you can't nest quotes inside fstrings if they are the same kind (unlike in bash) - e.g

      f"{mydict["foo"]}"
    
    would be a syntax error, but

      f"{mydict['foo']}"
    
    or

      f'{mydict["foo"]}'
    
    would be valid.

    The reason being the same like for the rstring weirdness: The lexer comes first and identifies the string literal, then for fstrings, the python parser is invoked again for each {...} expression to parse it.

    This is unlike other nested expressions, which are already split up by the lexer and then parsed in one go.

    Did that change at some point?

  • cocodill 1 hour ago
    do not get the funny part of the pythons string.
  • madprops 1 hour ago
    Great new way to write blog posts!
  • TZubiri 1 hour ago
    Been using python for almost 10 years. I never use any of the funky strings.

    Instead of reading like 10 PEPs for f strings, I just use the + operator on strings and backslash escaping, big whoop.

    • PyWoody 1 hour ago
      Instead of 10 PEPs, you could read one helpful cheatsheet: https://www.pythonmorsels.com/string-formatting/#cheat-sheet....
    • andai 1 hour ago
      age = 32

      print(f"Age: {age}")

      Thus concludes the lecture on f-strings.

      • kzrdude 8 minutes ago
        I find it funny and satisfying that Python has converged to it's own "printf", by which I mean print(f"").
    • jheriko 39 minutes ago
      [dead]
    • smohare 1 hour ago
      Right, because x + " " + y is more clear than of simply f"{x} {y}".

      Been using python for longer than 10 years and immediately started using f-strings when I could. It takes almost no time to understand the basics.

  • smitty1e 2 hours ago
    Whenever I'm building a JSON document, I revert to the old %s syntax just because it's more tidy than an f-string.
    • folkrav 2 hours ago
      Am I understanding that you’re building JSON with string interpolation? If so any special reason you wouldn’t build a dict and json.dumps() it?